A brief prolog to the method: in my training groups, sometimes, I've had nice result when starting the group on a problem it deemed unsolvable, instead of starting them from scratch, I've called on my own imaging faculties to give me a decent working solution and then challenged the group to come up with a better one or improve on that one. Usually they'd come up with a better one. Here, it's not defined as a problem and the procedure I've in mind isn't the same, more like a default setting. (In game theory, a maximum minimum, and then see how far above that we can get.) OK - bnasicly, a default setting likec pretty much the aggregate we have now, writers who co-author make whatever arrangements with one another they please or not at all as they please, we share information, inspiration, ideas, encouragement but the arrangement as a whole remains nebulous or anarchistic until we decide on specific structures we want to help us along that we're willing to invest attention in. A step above that, probably also in reach of us all, is an inventory of everyone's interests and skills to make it more convenient to call upon one-another. That's minim default setting, a There should be on clear person to set agenda and decide when to move on... I've tried to initiate an agenda, picking on your letter, John, as a start, but I know I can't direct this thing with what else has to be done. If this takes on organizational structure, it's going to have to come from other group members. 1. There will be a celebrity chat with Win on 1 May at Hot Rod Your Head www.botree.com 8PM CST Your attendance would be appreciated That exact chat URL is www.botree.com/chat.htm 2. My company is developing a search engine... ... it's in Beta, but please everyone check it out and let me know what you think: www.searchhound.com 3. There is some potential in electronically publishing these books you brilliant writers devise. Win can tell you about that. Yes. Got it now. Thanks. Alas, I don't remember its details. But I'm thinking in terms mayby of skills, interests, what you see in this projects, etc. What did you think of starting such a new agenda with something like a default setting? Or would it scare off people who haven't been involved in the discussion? Maybe if we can turn several of these into major profits, we'll see more of 'em.... If no other decision is forthcoming, we continue on the amorphous basis described, with options still open for later as people feel the need of this or that structure... The big hangup is the cost of color in story book printing. --Not a problem on the net, and maybe once we got several examples up ground-based publishers would come to us, we wouldn't have to chase them across the landscape like I've been doing. I think it is more a question finding a good publisher... How would you suggest we accelerate that processs? Excellent question! How to get those that want structure to build what will make them comfortable without the rest of us having to drop the good things we're doing to do it for them. Seems like several in our overall party do - would have to check the correspondence to see whom. CD burner, that is > We may need more artists, or use Proj.Ren. methods to become such ourselves ... and I gather than many of us have access to paint programs on our computers. Thoughts - (1) Inventory of talents and skills (2) inventory of things needed, like CD burners (3) inventory of proposed specific projects which can use help of one sort or another ? We do now have one very good artist, and I may have located a second. I wish Tice were here. She's a poet, and a musician, and I think there are contexts in which these could be very important to us. Yes, we need writers. 29 in the group, 3 here (though 3 key players aren't here who said they couldn't be this round. 29 in the group, and you've remarked already the number of stories thus far. > I've got a number of ideas for stories, but limited time. I enjoy writing these things, but feel a little depressed that most of the others don't seem yet inspired to write ... Maybe an amorphous structure might make sense, aside from delighting the libertarians, in that on a self-initiated, person-by-person basis, when and if rewards start flowing its clearly to those who produced. John - what do you see needing to be done to Dew Song still, before e-publishing it and/or sending it off to ground publishers? Bonnie Tutaro who illustrated the original will give us 4-5 more good panels to work with illustrating what you've added.... > I'm thinking that I'm probably capable of writing half the stories myself, if need be, but it would take a few months, perhaps. What I'd like to see would be some ways of inspiring the others so that they'd _want_ to write some themselves (well, and write as well as want :-). If we got that in fact published,m I think that'd trigger a little inspiration... What have we got that's ready or near-ready to go: > Re: Dew ... each proposed solution could be illustrated, and perhaps a few other illustrations ... and if we're adventurous, we could leave a white space for the child to draw in an idea of their own :-) 1) We have the revised Dew Song, perhaps most suitable of everything that's come up so far and very close to readiness=-to-publish. Maybe that's our top practical priority. 2) We have, in addition to that mixed what-7-how but mostly how, thanks to you - story, a pretty good story complete in Philosopher's Stone the original. > What about your stories of Atlotzis (Atlantis? :-) 3) We have the makings of a series beginning with the revisition one of us is making in Philosopher's S, which is closer to how than what where original Stone is more what than how. 4) We have some complete and near-complete stories illustrating capitalism and libertarian values, a series of what stories 1-2 of which may well be publishable. > Also, Larry put some effort into that TV version of the story ... I'd like to change the name of Eddie Wills in the revised series, keep the original story intact even though its a what because it's a pretty good what. We can have both. Yes, and we maybe should find ways to encourage both these and draw more forth.... So we have some pretty-well developed assets and others coming.... > What I'd really like to see (and will write myself, I plan) are stories synthesizing several of our target areas ... e.g., using PR methods to come up with libertarianish solutions, integrated as systems :-) Another lacunae - doesn't happen with two, but when more are on we keep expecting someone else to make the response Then we are on the way with the original Stone story. If we don't need to be purists in our opening salvoes insisting on only how......but will we lose some of our definition? Stone, the original, is b-e-a-utifully illustrated by Bonnie Tutaro, ready to publish as is. If that doesn't compromise our issue about how vs. what. > Heh, maybe we need to get clearer on our definition! Also, it occurs to me that if we work from a wealth of stories, _too many_ to publish in one volume, then it may be easier to select those in support of various themes or definitions. While you're cutting & pasting - None of that seems in reach of my mouse in this particular set-up. I can't even do a series of quickie printouts. If we do anything immortal here can you e-mail me a transcript? > Otherwise, we have half a dozen stories that add up to an odd thing ... You speak of one volume.....As a parent of fairly long standing, we had maybe a hundred collections and volumes of children's stories. What got used were the singles instead. > You mean single short stories, as units, rather than collections of stories? Maybe we focus on getting first one "single" up, then another, then another, worry about coherent volumes later and ride opportunistically if a ground publisher shows up.... Yes. Children delight in these. Maybe the whole bunch of stories in a book, instead of a great treasure, seems to almost be work. At least young children. Older ones, there are more differences, hardeer to generalize. > Market research! You were(are) a parent, and your family preferred singles. Maybe we should ask around and see what might be wanted? Excellent - proposed: we float, to our group and maybe to the listserver, what any parents or older siblings oir cousins noticed about the preferences of young children in that regard. Do we have an action item on the agenda? > Also, it occurs to me that the acid test of kid's stories is whether or not kids like them and find them worth reading. I propose sending out a few copies of stories for "beta tests". --Without the artwork? > If we can do the artwork, great, if not, then maybe feedback on the verbal part alone will still help. Max, you've been listening pretty hard, it seems, these past few minutes. What do you think on this? On two stories and the modified version of one, we have the artwork. > Hmm. Is part of the effort to have the kids imagine this stuff as it's being read to them? Nice thought! What do YOU see in your mind's eye as Ed Wills looks down at his first slain dragon? > Action item: I'm free-wheeling at this point. That's where Larry would come in ... Win, I'm sorry, I'm fighting some (Unix) daemons while I try to follow your interesting conv./.. Ah HA - now I'm getting into it; if you DON't want to kill any more dragons, how might you avoid it and still go for the stone? Unix? I'm still wet behind my computer ears... > When I read the story, P.S., I had imagery galore, illustrations wouldn't be necessary for me ... Let's make sure Larry gets a transcript of this segment, at least.... > I'll try to pretty it up a bit, and post it. ... maybe this first session should be considered a trial run? Though a few ideas have popped up ... That could still be the original story, only with directions to the parent to ask such questions at thus and so points.....? I appreciate whatever you can do--and BTW, you've done a heck of a lot in the days and weeks leading up to now. My profoundest appreciation. > How about suggested reading style ... parents imagine the scenes as vividly as they can, and read slowly and luxuriously so the kids can create and savor their own imagery ... --And a program of specified questions, maybe, or with pause and susch-&-such imagination game or visualization game there... > Thanks! Like I say, this is a labor of love for me, else I'd do very little. Hmmm, perhaps we could find ways to have the others fall in love with the idea? Spin-off stories - sequals made not by us but by the kids, with just the barest nudge from us to get them started...? > I wonder ... could we entice older kids into writing stories for younger kids, and adults into stories for older kids ...? --Or see a scene not in the book but which obviously is part of the story.......describe it (after the kid has been IN scenes which ARe in the book...) Quite possibly. Should we brainstorm on how, or run it through our Image Stream for how, and/or ask the group? > Or have the kid take a turn, after Aurora, John and Sylvia, and describe to the parent what he/she sees? And then go on with the story? Yes, in the story, then beyond the story > If your time is almost up, we'll have to postpone whatever else we do ... Looking bacxk over the foregoing, I'm realizing some of the advantage and disadvantage of being a fast typist. My apologies. > Win, I think you need at least three people to keep you occupied (and you them :-) Let's you and my aghree, John, to go ahead with publishing the modified Dew as a lead single. If any profits can be made fdrom it, you and I split them 50-50 (and Bonnie gets half of mine), just to get things started. Second action item, 2) We put question to the group as to singles or books for children. 3) We announce the default arrangement (temporarily) in effect until other and involved members feel they need more structure AND are willing to help put that together. 4) We set up another time for a chat - have to work that out with Mark - and see if we can't get a broader based involvement. > This morning I woke up early and couldn't go back to sleep ... each time I almost nodded off, another story idea came to me. I think the thing for me to do is to start cranking them out. Others may then feel inspiration at watching the "fountainhead" at work :-). Perhaps the best we can do is to serve as examples. > Yes, perhaps we should just go ahead and hardcopy Dew 2 ... again, leadership by example. 5) We ask for an inventory of skills and interest. I'll design a brief questionnarie and post it if you agree; the three of us post to each other on the question of whether we want to post a set of projects. Yes, yes, yes. Examples! Dew is closest I think to our priority objective and to publishability, a good combination. > I think you've nicely summed up some actions items. I'll go back over my transcript to see what else pops out. Max - have you gotten past your daemons yet? How do you relate to these action items? > Yes, Dew is almost done :-) Max? > He may be busy invoking the latest daemon ...you know how persnicketty they can be :-) I guess so. Does it look like we have a plan of sorts? > I think so, though probably nowhere near as formalized as Larry would like ... If so, which of us, after a review of transcript, should post these actions to the group? > Like I say, I'm going to have to go back over the transcript to see what we've done. That's what happens when you get two creative types together ... but I must congratulate you on your ability to summarize while standing on your feet! Let's get Larry focussed on carrying through his revisions of Stone.... if he gets hot enough onto thatm, he won't be that worried about organization until after. (Or maybe we should turn him into a Libertarian so no government and no structure seems a comfortable idea!... These feet are getting a bit tired and I've another very early-starting day tomorrow. Your transcript pretty intact? Gents, I'm sorry but I do have an emergency over here. I tried to follow the conversation and it sounds very good to me! Best wishes, my apologies for not chipping in more... > I'm not sure it matters ... maybe I could just post what I've got, and leave the original form on the web page (that is, pretty it up, post it to the CW list) > Uh oh, I think Max just got eaten by his daemon! :-) OK - that will do, should we edit out the libertarian Larry bit or leave it in for what it's worth? > I believe I've got most of what's transpired here tonight. > I'll edit out any "sensitive" material before posting to the list, but may leave the cut-and-paste version intact ... more incentive to actually be present _next_ time? :-) Again, John, my profoundest appreciation. I dunno if this is indivative, that it's mainly you and me for the foreseeable future, though several strong people who I think will be with us told me in advance they couldn't be here tonight. Rick, Tice, George Copeley among others.... Great. Are we set then for the moment? > Well, so far we've made a pretty good team. Again, an example :-) OK teammate. Until our next exchanges, then---? --see 'ya tomorrow somewhere online? > I think we're set for now, at least I'm getting a little tired and there have been some productive ideas created here tonight. Yes, until next time! And I hope that more will want to join in next time .. > Yes, I'll be around tomorrow :-). Yes. Many thanks. Very good night to you. > good night to you too!